Ep. 133: For Obvious Reasons

In this episode, the guys answer a bunch of your burning LSAT questions, but not before talking about Ben’s recent use of Movie Pass and Nathan’s experience as a Couch Surfing host.

7:26 – Email 1—Ross has an impressive 170 on record and is shooting higher. He thinks he can smash out a 173 or 174 this coming June. But in all of his practicing, he’s been curious about one thing: do folks who are religious tend to do worse on science-based LSAT questions? As an old-earth creationist, Ross has to do a temporary mental gear shift to be able to answer questions where evolution is foundational to the argument—so it takes him a few moments longer to answer those types of questions. He wants to know if the guys have heard of this issue before, and if they think LSAC has this issue on their radar. The question sparks some healthy debate between Nathan and Ben.

34:31 – Email 2—Exotic wants to know if Nathan is for real when he demands that students not pay for law school. After all, law school is an investment in your future, is it not? And full ride scholarships aren’t a reality for everyone, right? Nope. The guys talk about why it’s almost impossible to rebut the presumption that you will not pay for law school. They discuss why it’s important to let go of your “top 14” or “top 30” mindset, and find a school that will cover you 100%. Plus, Ben and Nathan share some favorite word games you might want to try on your own.

52:51 – Email 3—In brighter news, Sarah is not paying a fucking dime for law school. And she feels great about it. She wants to know if taking the February LSAT for a 2018 school year is advisable (the answer is ‘no’). But regardless of whether her February LSAT nabs her better offers, her 157 on record and 3.67 GPA have scored her a full ride already. Nathan and Ben agree that everyone should follow Sarah’s example. Congrats, Sarah! And let us know if your February LSAT gets you any more attractive offers!

59:08 – Email 4—How apropos. Alexis wants to know—is it better to go to a “low quality” school like Thomas Jefferson on a full ride rather than a higher-ranked school and pay? I mean, if you go to a school like TJ, you’re bound to be at the top of your class and maybe even get a stipend, right? You’re right Alexis. There’s no shame in going to the best school you can get into and still not pay for. You’re still going to be a lawyer. You’ll just get your JD debt free.

1:04:45 – Email 5—Let’s say you go to law school and absolutely destroy your L1 year. Excellent grades. Great work under your belt. What’s your reward? Well, it turns out there are scholarship opportunities for those who excel during L1. This is exactly what Riley found when she was wondering about scholarships after you’re already in law school. She also found some L1 preview courses to get you prepped for your first year, and she’s wondering if it’s worth the investment to pay for an L1 prep course. The guys weigh in.

1:10:41 – Email 6—Winston is a bit bummed. Earlier in life he enrolled in a few college classes that he totally ditched and didn’t even complete, resulting in three goose eggs on his transcript. When he finally started taking school seriously, he earned a 3.85 GPA. Which is pretty awesome. But his LSAC GPA is still just 3.56 with his multiple zeroes. He wants to know—has his younger self totally screwed his current self? Or is there hope? Ben and Nathan agree that getting a great LSAT score, writing a great personal statement and an addendum can open up a ton of opportunity. Don’t get down, Winston. You got this.


  1. Nathan, you sound like you need a hug.


    1. Someone’s faith I think has to do with not merely reason but also emotions and that person’s life stories. Then to make fun of a creationist because creationism is not the most reasonable hypothesis misses out those other bases of religion than pure argumentation.

      It’s great that Nathan said he is open to changing his view if he sees compelling counterevidence but to laugh at and to namecall Ross’s worldview was straight up inconsiderate and definitely not funny.

      I’m not even religious and I had to pause this episode at the Ross part. I’m glad Ben replied thoughtfully to Nathan’s approach the way Ben did. Huge respect to Ben. And hugs to Nathan and Ross.


    2. I think to argue that creationism is not the most reasonable hypothesis (whether that is “true” or not) is to feed into the dogma of evolutionary scientific theory which purports this notion of fact being that which is observed and developed through inferences based upon certain assumptions already manifested or believed in. Furthermore, this idea that the philosophy of mere survival is absolute even as people kill themselves, is to deny the blatant reality that there is a process of self-actualization struggle within the human psyche that is much better explained through the “return to” or understanding of God as the word or the becoming of the human race into a type of perfection. This actually, as a philosophy, lends itself better to human behavior than does evolution’s “survival theory” as the foundation of all motivation.


  2. Nathan sounds like one of those bitter kids who was forced into Catholic school.
    Some of the brightest scientific minds are also religious. I’m talking about researchers who are actively publishing, not Dawkins or other celebrity scientists.

    I’m not religious and I’ve been listening to this podcast for years. But hyperbolic and emotional statements (sky fairy tho?) don’t strengthen an argument, they weaken it.


  3. Nathan, in a recent blog post (https://www.foxlsat.com/blog/2018/3/26/law-school-as-ego-purchase) you seem to acknowledge that prestige does in fact matter for legal jobs when you comment that Google should hire from Harvard Yale and Stanford and not from Hastings. Doesn’t this undermine your point slightly because someone deciding between Harvard and full-ride to Hastings wouldn’t get the job if they went with the “not pay for law school” option?


  4. Yo, nate need jesus. Ben might need jesus but since he adnostik he just dont know.

    SOOOOOO I got into Barry fellahs! They gave me some discounts and waived my application fee and i did the best I could on the LSAT so its time for that crucial next step! I may end up paying for school but I have no doubt that I will study hard and do the best I can to past the bar and attain a job after I graduate!

    My mom put it best when she said that barry has got a program aimed at helping students pass the bar and that they will make sure i know what i need to before i take the plunge. I’m still going to be listening to this podcast even while am in school because it is funny yall.

    Good luck!


    1. Hi Dion! I’m glad that you got some discounts, but that’s not enough. Think twice! Schools that say that they’ll help you pass the bar are not necesarily to be trusted. Just saying! Can you not get in somewhere else for free?


  5. In re our boy with the top 30 mindset, if he really wants to pay for prestige, just take the free school and then take an extra year after law school and tack on an LLM, or Masters degree in the area he wants to practice in. Maybe even kick enough ass in his JD to merit a scholarship somewhere cool.


    1. These are interesting suggestions, thanks. I’m not sure how many scholarships are available for transfers. It would be interesting to see data (or hear anecdotes) on this. Regarding the LLM or Masters, it makes me queasy to think about somebody paying $50,000 for a one-year rubber stamp from some “prestige” school, but not nearly as queasy as $150,000 for the 1L-3L years so who knows. Shrug emoji.


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